Charlie Hayter

[gary]

Copied from 'Rugby News and Views'

@what_The_Ruck: Wasps have brought in former Northampton Saints scrum-half Stuart Commins and Moseley centre Charlie Hayter as injury/6N cover #Rugby

[Mr Steve]

www.wasps.co.uk/news/wasps33626.ink

Hope the link works!

Bad news for Mose, great opportunity for Charlie though....

[philhall]

I have to reluctantly accept that players today no longer have any concept of loyalty. Unfortunately, loyalty or, more to the point, the demise of loyalty it is not confined to sport but to industry and society as a whole. And it is not all that modern a demise either.

I remember many, many years ago when I was a senior transport manager with Tarmac, a plc company, my desire to remain loyal to my tyre supplier who provided my fleet of 800 trucks with constantly good price and service - and prompt payment, I might add - put me in conflict with my MD who tried to insist I ditched them for another supplier - with proven inferior service and a reputation for late payment - just to "save" a half of one penny per tyre. I had already saved £75.000 - ongoing - by cutting out the tyre fiddles and back hands.

I had one running with this MD within one month of starting the job when I challenged him on a point of legislation at my first monthly senior managers board meeting. My very early observations were that we could save £150.000 per year on tachograph repairs alone, or, more to the point, eliminate tachograph repairs. He tried to ridicule me in front of the entire board, bellowing out in a rage "who the f*** employed this f****** idiot, he doesn't know what the f****** hell I was on about" ... and called me every profanity he could think of - including a couple, even I as a former soldier, had never heard of.

Naturally, being the diplomatic, steely resolved but stubborn Yorkshire git that I am, that was red rag to a bull - so I took him on. With the law, and supported by the Freight Transport Association - I was a Midlands Committee member of the FTA - on my side, he didn't have a leg to stand on and after prolonged and heated debate I won the day. Finally, at a future managers meeting my observations were proposed and accepted - but it was his initiative, not mine, that I had researched.

I won the day with the tyre supplier as well.

Similarly, society will invariably opt for the short term gain in buying cheaper priced goods from abroad rather than support our home produce.

Which brings me back to loyalty.

In Moseley's heyday there was a strong sense of player loyalty to the club. Ok, one or two players were frustrated at not being selected for the first team - Les Cusworth, for one, springs to mind - he went to Leicester, if my memory serves me. Kieth Fielding went to rugby league, but the attraction there was probably money.

And when Worcester started to emerge on the scene the best part of their first team was former Moseley first team players - most of them attracted by money.

Money in sport is the root of all evil. It undermines continuity in a teams progress, particularly when players are prepared to break their contracts and move mid season. If the latest news on Charlie Hayter moving to Wasps is correct and he is off "tout suite" then that is distasteful. A DR player being recalled by his home club is one thing, that is part of the loan arrangement, but for a contracted player to simply upt sticks and just go is another altogether unwelcome development.

If I want to leave my employ - I have a contract of employment - I have to give one months notice. When I was a senior manager my seniority increased that notice to 3 months.

I would pose the question. Will Moseley attract any severance compensation from Wasps? I rather doubt it. We will probably be left with a hole at centre through which Moseley's Championship future could very well disappear. No doubt Charlies 'agent' will make something out of the deal and perhaps a percentage on future earnings as well.

Sundays illustration of the lack of quality players Moseley can call upon to step up to the mark suggests to me that there is only one short term centre option open to Moseley.

Come on Maggsy. Get your boots out. Get your kit on. Get stuck in. Starting with Saturday.

Come on Mooose.

[ale]

I am not against players choosing to move on to bigger things, but I do think there should be some sort of stiff financial penalty imposed to compensate the incumbent club should that player be in contract mid season. I have no idea what Charlie was paid, but would suggest a fair swap would be his contracted seasons salary.

[watcher]

I think a number of inaccurate conclusions are being jumped to here. My spies in the club tell me that Hayter had a clause in his contract that he would be able to move to club in a higher league if an acceptable offer (both to the player and Moseley) came in. This often encourages a player to sign for a Championship club immediatley rather than stay unattached during the off season hoping for a higher league contract. There apparently is a compensation fee payable to his current club (i.e. Moseley) if this clause is triggered by the player. This fee would enable a replacement to be obtained if one is available (yes one could be tough to find but you never know, there could be one returning from injury who needs game time or another who has not had the opportunity to play regulalry due to others playing well in his premiership club. There is a possibility that Moseley could end up being better off by this arrangement! It would also be wrong to criticise Hayter for leaving as he signed for Moseley on the basis that he could leave if such an offer came in.

[robheap]

Good points well made, sadly we're a forgotten breed us loyalty wallahs. Cash is king these days, perhaps Mose do get compensation, anyone know? good luck to Charlie, can't blame him for his ambition, but woe betide Mose's survival hopes.
Do we have an able replacement? I'm not sure.

[Westcountry Mose]

I am all for ambition but a release clause in a 1 year contract??? If somebody cannot commit to one season how does that help any club, especially if they leave at the 'business end' of a campaign?

[Admin]

Have to say I agree with Westcountry Mose. I know we need to offer these to attract the best players, but on a one year contract it seems a bit pointless, especially if they leave in January. Shame to see him go but would never want to stop anybody progressing.

[londonexile]

Lets not jump to any hasty conclusions yet. If Charlie's move to Wasps is imminent then I am sure there will be a club announcement shortly. Until then, probably only CH and the club know exactly what is written in his contract.

[Steve@Mose]

Mail: Hayter signs for London Wasps

[Admin]

Charlie HAYTER on Twitter :

@hayter88: Big thanks to everyone involved with @moseleyrugbyfc had a really enjoyable time and loved playing for the club.

[ale]

Certainly going to be difficult boots to fill, especially at this point of the season, but I'm probably a little less pessimistic in the fact it's a centre who is going and nobody knows better than Maggsy about the qualities required in that position. I can't imagine that there's that much out there to choose from in any of the UK leagues, May be the management are going to hunt a little further afield, I'd welcome a giant Samoan with dancing feet, but suspect in light of the fact the lads who joined from Dings have performed admirably at Championship level, the raid will be on for a promising youngster from the lower divisions, (or may be The Saints are feeling generous and lend us George Pisi for the remainder of the season....

[philhall]

Cash doesn't have to be king. It should go hand in hand with principals. Sadly it doesn't and many of us contribute to that demise in principals by putting cash "cost" before principal. How many of you prefer a cheaper "foreign" purchase, clothes and shoes, for example, because they are cheaper than home produce. I know that times are difficult and we all have to stretch our resources as best we can and it is still our choice how we all handle our financial affairs. But that does not mean that principals have to be abandoned. Far from it.

I can clearly remember, many years ago the bad old days of gazzumping. I had agreed the sale and price for my detached house - I had been made redundant from Hawleys Bakeries and could no longer afford the mortgage. And then a "foreign" person offered me £3000 cash - in hand, no questions - to sell my home to him for an extra £5000, including the cash in hand.

Obviously the extra money would have been very welcome at that particular time but would that have been fair on the family to whom I had agreed to sell my home? Would I have liked to have to have been in my agreed purchasers boots, knowing an attempt had been made to "gazzump" them? certainly not! Would you? I doubt it. I told the "foreigner" what to do with his offer and sold my house to the purchaser with whom I had agreed the sale and the price. I have a clear mind and no regrets.

So what is the difference between that scenario and a rugby club and a rugby player?

A contract - one presumes honourable - has been made between two parties. One also presumes that contract has a start and closing date. Moseley, on the one hand agree to pay said player an agreed remuneration for their efforts and the said player agrees to play to his fullest ability at all times. If the said player is not up to scratch then there is every chance the contract will not be renewed in the same vein, if at all. But, one also presumes, Moseley will be obliged to meet their financial obligations irrespective of performance. Conversely, if the said player is of exceptional talent then the contract would be renegotiated if at all possible. Should it not be financially possible to retain a player, then that player would be free to leave at the end of the contract. Nothing wrong with that.

But it does stick in my craw that, seemingly, a player can choose to leave at any point even before that contract has finished - and not just at the end of the season.

I feel sure there is a distinction between a direct loan player returning to his home club at any point in the season and a contracted player leaving. The former is part of the two way agreement a direct loan player operates under, but the contracted player? I am not so sure.

No doubt London Scottish will be rubbing their hands knowing that their Moseley Nemesis, Charlie Hayter, may not be playing against them later in the season. Moseley, equally, were rubbing their hands with glee at the start of the season when their Nemesis, Simon Hunt of Birmingham Solihull fame joined them at the start of the season. Sadly, I do not feel that Simon Hunt is a shadow of the Nemesis who tormented us in his Birmingham Solihull days, far from it.

I could be churlish and remain resentful, in respect of fair play, that Charlie Hayter would appear to be leaving us mid-season. But I must not resort to that level of disrespect and whilst I wish he could stay till the end of the season I must wish him well. I cannot be quite so magnanimous to Wasps - after all, they are looking to cover their international absentees as much as their injured players, yet they are more than happy to receive a huge payout from RFU to fund those players - and they probably don't give two hoots to Moseley's prospects in the process.

I am sad that cash would appear to be king, particularly with regard to the greedy, self centred, inward looking premiership clubs. But it would not be quite so if there was more than a passing regard for loyalty by all players, good or bad, alike. Sadly, there is not and that makes the poignant sadness even deeper.

[grooveavenue]

Afraid philhill I think we would be infringeing Charlies rights by stopping his wish to move. Bit like people moving around jobs . Imagine how much organisations spend on training salesmen, engineers etc only for people to move on to another job. I also think about Moseley's kit when we talk about loyalty I do believe it comes from the Antipedes (am I right on this?), I wonder how much a kit made in the UK would cost?

At Kevin's Q and A he specifically mentioned incoming players in 2 to 3 weeks - no names though - but he said the names would please us!! Of course Charlies release may change priorities. Can the club comment and is there any other comment from Kevin on the Llanelli match ?

[kingsheathlad]

Is the date when no more transfers can be done this season.?

[kingsheathlad]

what happened to Caolan Ryan. I seem to recall he came on in the friendly at Bedwas and played at centre but his profile says he is a full back /fly half.

[jds]

I think we have to remember that these players are ambitious and want to play at the best level they can. I am all for loyalty, but to compare the late 70's and early 80's with now is not a fair comparison. This is now their living, not a hobby, and if you have ambition then who would not go to a Premiership club to experience all that that brings. Reading the press release it would seem that Charlie H has been recruited to Wasps primarily as cover for the Six Nations and, one would presume, from any post-Lions fall out. If it doesn't work out then I would hope that he may return.

Loyalty also cuts both ways... if, say, Manu Tuilagi, fancied a step down and asked Kevin for a one year contract we know what would happen.

My point is that we sometimes we have to look at situations such as these from the players' perspective. I, for one, wish him well and say thanks for your efforts so far this season.

JDS

[londonexile]

Am I correct in saying that I read somewhere on this board that we had Charlie until the end of the season? was that a quote from the Q&A evening? Anyone remember or able to comment?

[Westcountry Mose]

The interests/views of all parties must of course be considered. However, without the fans (paying public) there would be no full-time contracts. It seems to me that not many professional sportsmen (and full-time administrators) give much, if any, thought to the likely impact of their actions on the supporters. Let's not forget, most of those posting messages on this board are with the club for the duration of their 'contract'.

[philhall]

I have a contract with Moseley Rugby Club. Moseley to play well and win. I to shout and holla to the best of my ability if they are playing well and winning. So far I'm keeping my part of the contract!

Come on Moooose

[Steve@Mose]

Mail: Kevin Maggs praises the impact of Anthony Carter who is tasked with filling Charlie Hayter's boots

Kevin Maggs: “I don’t think we need to go back to the drawing board in any way.”

[Oddsox]

Does anyone know if Charlie Hayter is getting a game with Wasps? He wasn't in the match day squad on Sunday. Perhaps we could loan him back until end of season !

[philhall]

That thought crossed my mind Oddsox. At least he would get some game time - and save me having to get match fit - well fit enough to be able to pull some socks on if not quite match fit.

Come on Mooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooose

[philhall]

That thought crossed my mind Oddsox. At least he would get some game time - and save me having to get match fit - well fit enough to be able to pull some socks on if not quite match fit.

Come on Mooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooose

[ale]

Won't be loaned back to us for sure, might get a run out for Rosslyn Park if he is lucky. Not for one moment do I deny him the move and the salary, but he struck me as a chap that wanted to play rugby... Looks like he is going to be training fodder.

[Communications Team]

So far Charlie has made two starts in the LV cup against Leicester and Sale (scoring 1 try against the Sharks) and one Premiership appearance on the bench against Harlequins.