Leeds 38 v Moseley 12

[gary]

Ana and I had a lovely weekend apart from the 80 minutes watching this game!

You could not fault any individual player for lack of effort but all the 'team' progress I thought we were making seemed to disappear.

Our defence was awful with at least 3 of their tries down to missed tackles.
Another of their tries was after we lost possession which we did regularly.
We seemed to completely lose our defensive alignment.
Too often we had 6 men pushing in the scrums against 8 for the opposition. Pinnaer and Lawrence kept loosely binding waiting for the breaks and all their 8 men did was push!
Apart from his kicking Ollie Thomas with the best will in the world is not a winger.
We need Simon Hunt on the wing not at 13.
Adam Caves does not look nearly as fit as he was last year and is not the force around the field he was. Time to give Sam Wilkes a regular start?
I'm not sure how much push is coming from the back 5 in the scrums.
Our line out was poor again.

Positives? A back line of Hunt, Haytor (he had a good game), King and Robinson look really dangerous if we can get them any ball.
Anthony Carter was excellent once again
Sam Brown has improved drastically since last year and is now really delivering at scrum half.
Glynn Hughes again looks good
Stefan Thorp was the pick of the forwards and did some excellent work in the loose as did Craig Voisey.

It's no good having (potentially) dangerous three quarters if we cannot get them the ball.

Much work for Kevin and David. I'd like to hear their honest views of that performance!

I'm trying to find good things to say but that was a poor team performance in my opinion.

[bailey]

We really weren't very good... Wharfedale however was a lovely club to visit.

[studleyken]

Apart from "Oliver's" kicking, Leeds were better in every aspect of the game today. There were school boy errors that almost made it look as though it may be back to the drawing board if we want to get anywhere. Even the fine efforts of the "16th man" did not help. But lets not give up hope. It has to come right at some time?
COME ON YOU MOOOOOSE.

[coverdale]

Totally agree with Gary`s review....just about sums it up!
It was a bad day at the office but unfortunately its becoming the expected rather than the blip!
It hasnt really clicked all season and we cant keep making excuses for it.
We have had a lot of injuries and when you have a squad as small as ours, that is going to hurt.
However, the side we put out yesterday, give or take one or two, is just about as strong as we have. We missed Waggy definitely but it was good to see Greg King back on the field. Hopefully Ponsy will be healthy again very soon.
Cant understand anymore what they are doing in the line out....its not as though you cant work on this in training but it looks as though its just going to be like this all season.
BUT...Like Gary says also, there are positives and as always, as i have said all along i still believe we will come good eventually. We have some very good players and i think we will give someone a spanking one day which will kickstart a pretty stuttering season at the moment.
On a lighter note...really enjoyed Warfedale. the food was great and the scenery up there is beautiful. There was also a crazy local announcer up there who was crackers but really enjoyed his enthusiasm and humour!
We WILL come good im sure of it.

Come on you mose machine!!

[philhall]

I missed the Wharfedale game yesterday and according to views so far it was yet another poor day at the office. The line out keeps cropping up as a problem area and I can understand prolonged issues there because I feel it is one of the more difficult aspects of the modern game to master. An element I certainly cannot understand is the need for players to jostle back and forth constantly, trying to outwit the opposition jumpers instead of getting on with actually throwing the ball in. And if line-outs are becoming a constant problem then why not develop an option based around a quick throw in.

However, the other comment raised was missed tackles and here there is less of a skill element. In my playing days I was never - in even the most remote sense - an effective attacking player, but what I could do time after time was tackle and stop players. In the main and I use "the main" a little loosely when a player entered my tackle zone - as it were - then without the question of the doubt my job was to stop him and by stop him I mean stop him dead and put him on the deck. It was no use going high because a big man - and I met some big men -would have just run over me. In my school rugby league days we were taught constantly to take his legs out and so I did, always. Granted that leaves his upper area open to off load but if he is on his way down his off load stands a chance of going wrong.

It saddens me to see flimsy half tackles and that is made even worse when the tackler often dawdles around instead off tackling back, Effectively he is out of the game for a short period and multiply that by two or three missed tackles and, if the attacking side provide support then the overall defensive disadvantage is catastrophic.

Fortunately all the other teams below us lost which is about the only good result on the day.

[coverdale]

Agree with all your points Phil especially the one about the quick throw in. We have been saying that all season!

[Richie B]

Apologies to all readers for the report below but I know not many could make the trip yesterday.

Fair summary from Gary . Very disappointing game to witness from a Moseley perspective and one where I felt we were never ever really "in it".

Another game when we were absolutely bested by the opposition pack in all aspects of forward play. The hard thing to take is that 6 tries to nil was probably a fair reflection of both territory and possession.

Scrummage was under real pressure yesterday and the lineout again a complete shambles. Basically meant that the opposition could kick directly to touch with the best that we could hope for would be bad ball if they didn't manage to steal it that is. Hence Leeds could play a pretty conservative game plan against us and win quite comfortably. Teams also appear to have twigged that if they get a lineout in our 22 the chances are they will score from a driving maul. Think three or four of their tries yesterday were drives by their pack.

Also the field positions we did get were invariably lost by either not getting to the tackled player quickly enough or by the ball carrier going to ground too early (not quite sure which). Also penalised for coming in from the side, probably because we're late getting to the breakdown and having to to deal with an opposition player who has got there quicker.

What was noticeable was how most of the pack are taking short balls doing so standing still. We consequently failed to get any effective close driving play going with only Buster managing to make any real yardage so no real momentum generated and prolonged periods of time without the ball again.

Problems securing or retaining possession mean the backs are having to try and play from first phase from their own 22 which is a tall order. We did launch a few successful long range attacks from deep late on but with the well documented ball retention issues they didn't result in any scores.

Certainly not a fun day to be a back yesterday!

Hope the lads can turn it round soon because it is certainly not for lack of effort or any lack of courage in the tackle. It's the technical aspects of winning and retaining possession where we are struggling badly. If the opposition consistently have the ball for 70-80% of the game one or two tackles will be missed at this level of rugby.

[ale]

In short... No good having assembled one of the reputed best set of backs in the the division, if they rarely get any clean ball to show what they can do. Next game is a must win, not only for the points but suspect morale for players and supporters alike.

[oldbailey]

I agree with other comments made about the link between our backs and forwards which was so lacking at both the Doncaster and Leeds games. I would also raise the matter of leadership on the field. There was no evidence of the captain trying to urge on or support players during the game. At the Leeds game our pack seemed hardly to speak to each other and it was from the backs that shouts of support came. There was no spirit on the field and I feel we need a true captain to help lift the team. Sadly I do not think Adam Caves is at present the player to do this. The coaches must look at this issue as one of many problems they have to solve. Anyone suggest who it should be?

[gary]

Excellent report RednBlack.

[philhall]

Neil Waggy Mason is the best candidate for captaincy in my view.

[studleyken]

Agreed Phill. Lets hope Mike Powell comes back in ASAP though.

[londonexile]

Given the circumstances I'm not surprised they gave the job to Adam: as he's an excellent club-man, usually has a good game and is always in the thick of the action. In my opinion there would have been only one other contender - Anthony Carter aka shaggy!

[ale]

I think Shaggy could do the job too, but very difficult from full back, although having a great view of what's happening in front and calling the shots, he would need a hardened pack leader to take care of the grizzly action, Waggy would definitely fit that role.

[kingsheathlad]

No news on Neal Mason's injury ?
My view of Sunday's game has been covered above, however what i noticed was the Leeds team, seemed bigger, fitter and faster, which could be down to a full time squad.
We cannot compete against the top four sides and we are fighting against the rest to avoid a relegation spot.
Wins at home against Doncaster and Jersey and away to LS will be a must. With a game soon against Rotherham, i think we could struggle to get any ball as they have one of the biggest packs in the league.
we could be playing off scraps again or not clean ball.
Any thoughts.

[Rich]

Re the lineout we had two tall fellas in 2nd row on Sunday so what is the excuse? Why not have Lockley and Hicks lifting Buster - not many people going to be able to get that high to challenge and not based on so much faffing about where things can go wrong...

[countrybumpkin]

The only way to beat the likes of a heavyweight Rotherham XV, Kingsheathlad, is to move the ball away from the contact area up front as quickly as possible, at every available opportunity. Unfortunately all too often our smaller, but often heroic pack of forwards insist on keeping it tight, rather than spinning the ball wide to our hugely talented, though seriously under-used back division. Out-weighed and out-gunned up front, we will never grind out victories against such opponents as Rotherham by relying too heavily on the combative character of a lightweight Moseley pack and the kicking skills of Ollie Thomas. What we need to aspire to is an altogether less conservative brand of rugby which is both fast and loose; one that looks to exploit our superior pace and flair out wide and to run our heavyweight opponents ragged. And it's not just our backs that would revel in such a high tempo, free-flowing game-plan. Don't forget that in recent times we have often ended up playing open-side wing-forwards on both flanks (Pons & Robinson) and a back-row forward at lock (Lawrence). So why not play to our strengths and exploit our relative superiority on the mobility and speed fronts, avoid the set-piece plays whenever possible (quick taps at penalties to avoid kicking for touch and line-outs that we invariably end up losing) and generally run riot? I know this is not the traditional Moseley way, but times change and a more adventurous brand of running rugby may well produce an increased chance of victory, a better spectacle and a bigger crowd. Why not go for such a positive strategy? Come on you Mose!

[philhall]

Well Kingshead. Form would appear to be little to go by because over the last weekend Donny lost to Bedford by just one point - whether Donny"lost it" or Bedford "won it" I don't know - and London Scottish nearly did a Moseley and came back from 18 down at half time to lose by only 4 at Plymouth.

Cornish Pirates, on the other hand, who struggled against Moseley, seemingly knocked seven cans of fertiliser out of Rotherham who, you said, have the biggest pack in the league with 6 of their 7 tries coming through the forwards - 3 of them to No 7 flanker Burgess.

Leeds, in similar style, through their forwards it would seem, knocked seven cans of proverbial out of Moseley. So where does that leave Moseley in relation to comparisons. Still firmly in the mire one would suggest.

But just what have been our positive performances so far this season. Good wins against two Welsh sides, Aberavon and Llanelli, a mediocre win against Jersey and an unexpected win against Bristol. We have the worst attacking record in the league; just when are we going to see our vaunted three-quarters:- and the third worst defence - do we have a defence seeing as Bedford thumped us, Leeds thumped us and Newcastle thumped us. In just three games Moseley conceded over 150 points against them.

Perhaps it is time to throw caution to the wind and run absolutely anything and everything - and in the process not die with the ball at the last pass - which seems to be creeping into what attacks we do make - and concentrate on giving the backs some real game time practice.

[gary]

Well said Countrybumpkin and beautifully put if I may say so!

[Richie B]

Much as I enjoy seeing threes who run it from anywhere I don’t think this style of rugby will be enough to keep us up especially as the weather deteriorates. If the opposition continue to monopolise possession for three quarters of the game 9 times out of 10 we’ll lose. I’m afraid there is no getting away from it that we have to become competitive up front.

Read the piece with Dave Hilton in the paper today with interest and a bit of disappointment...

"Let’s enjoy ourselves being in the attacking 22, let’s create our phases and earn the right to go wide."

“How many times in the second half did we break through from our own half into their 22 and tried the off-load? Every time they ended up with the ball."

Not entirely convinced myself that looking for the offload was a major contributory factor in the defeat on Sunday (think I saw it happen twice all game). Worryingly for me no recognition that the main cause of our woes is the set piece and has been all season. To build the phases you need to first obtain and then retain the ball. Once the ball is clean you need to generate some go forward to give the backs a chance to attack a disorganised defence. We’re not doing any of that basic bread and butter stuff well at the moment and surely that’s where the focus needs to be.

The point being missed IMHO is that when the set piece is no guarantee of quality possession it means you have to adopt a style of play based upon keeping the ball alive, in hand, and away from contact which is a high risk strategy (but often a good watch!). Currently the back line have no option but to launch attacks from first phase in their own 22 due to the lack of possession coming their way. True it didn’t yield any tries on the weekend but it did provide a win against the odds at Bristol. Fundamental issue must surely be to address the basics of our forward play to improve the supply of quality of ball then we’ll really see what this backline is really capable of.

Also have to echo a few points on fitness made above. Often the first player to the breakdown happens not to be wearing a Moseley shirt. Means that even when we do manage to retain possession Sam has to fight to get it out prior to getting his pass away. Valuable seconds for the opposition defence to re-organise.



Here's hoping for better in two weeks time!

[coverdale]

totally agree with you countrybumpkin.....At the very least its worth trying and seeing what happens. Its not working at the moment and like everyone else, i have been saying all season...you can have the best back line in the world but without the ball they are no good to anyone. I personally dont think we have played to our true strengths all season.
Lets give it a bash and see what gives i reckon!

[willbassett]

The old maxim applies: Forwards win matches, the backs decide by how much
Unfortunately, with injuries to Mason and Powell, our pack is too small and inexperienced at this level
I fear with winter approaching that things are going to get worse before they get better, notably the home matches against Jersey, Scottish and Doncaster - the latter two in March

[ale]

I am absolutely in agreement with the 'try and keep the ball alive approach' and I would be surprised if it wasn't a key element to Kevin's weekly game plan and training drills, having been a world class centre in his day. However it's not that simple if the opposition simply don't give you the ball ie kick openly (very few sides so far this season have gone that route) and your forwards are not capable for whatever reason, size, age, inexperience, conditioning to front up to a team who have identified where and what their route of attack is. I have no doubt that Powell and Mason would have added some solidity if both had played throughout the season so far to present a more stable platform to play off, whether that be the line or the scrum, but I'm not 100% convinced they could add too much more to the tight chanel play that teams have clearly adopted against us. So we are half way through the season and I think still a lot to play for, the fixture list may be a little kinder to us in the 2nd half of the season if we can recreate a bit of a fortress, by no means am I overly optimistic but home wins against Scottish, Jersey, and Donny, I recon would be enough to keep us up, but a wet muddy winter could put the spanner in the works of that prediction for sure!

[philhall]

Wot piece by Dave Hilton in wot paper RednBlack?

[Richie B]

Hi Phil,

linky thing been added to news thread above.